tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9661811.post2419389507791701580..comments2024-02-18T12:18:45.788-05:00Comments on Sun and Shield: Elizabeth Moon's Paksenarrion -- Christian or not?Martin LaBarhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14629053725732957599noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9661811.post-14542082603322219752019-08-04T14:29:31.081-04:002019-08-04T14:29:31.081-04:00I really wouldn't disagree at all strongly wit...I really wouldn't disagree at all strongly with both of your points 1) and 2).<br /><br />Thanks for commenting!Martin LaBarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14629053725732957599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9661811.post-37854183045329739102019-08-04T13:36:41.591-04:002019-08-04T13:36:41.591-04:00Having read and re-read this series, I agree with ...Having read and re-read this series, I agree with almost all of your points. I have 2 (very) minor thoughts: 1) Personally, I don't see Paks as a Christ figure, more of a prophet. If I was to try and draw a biblical parallel, I think either the Apostle Peter or Paul would be a better fit.<br />and 2) (and this is very minor) I would tend to say that this book is more spiritual with a christian undertone rather than a Christian book.<br /><br />Both feelings of mine are very, very minor. Still, it is a great book.<br />I have lent this book out more than 10 times, and only received it back once. It helped me through rehab and I still re-read this book/series to give me both a good feeling, and remind me that anything worthwhile is never easy.<br /><br />I would (and have) strongly recommend this book to anyone. Specifically I have given this book to many women who are struggling with spiritual/life issues who love sci-fi/fantasy.<br /><br />Otherwise your description of the spirituality of this book(s) is a more than fair description of the series.<br />timiddragonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02932498729374026670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9661811.post-19349643631392225492014-04-24T21:39:37.875-04:002014-04-24T21:39:37.875-04:00Thanks, Finn Harder. That's why I read them!Thanks, Finn Harder. That's why I read them!Martin LaBarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14629053725732957599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9661811.post-22816632059346019032014-04-24T21:03:10.414-04:002014-04-24T21:03:10.414-04:00Hi All.
Not being a scholar myself and to booth no...Hi All.<br />Not being a scholar myself and to booth not being particular religious, I do not really feel qualified to comment on the religious content, if any, of her work.<br />I have, however< read "Paksenarrion" and her "Serrano" novels and whether, or not, they have a religious message they are still a bloody good read.Finn Hardernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9661811.post-33969813995711952362011-10-09T07:21:10.480-04:002011-10-09T07:21:10.480-04:00Thanks, Karen Gladys Henry.
You probably won'...Thanks, Karen Gladys Henry.<br /><br />You probably won't see another such list, either. I'm not always sure it's useful, myself.<br /><br />As to reading the Paksenarrion books, that's up to you. It would take a serious commitment.<br /><br />But my assessment of the overall mood of the book is positive, or as positive as a book about a mercenary army can be. (Moon has been a marine herself, and puts in logistical details, such as that you have to have a latrine, and a way of transporting food, that many books on battles ignore.) The main characters are clearly good, and fight for the good, and against evil.<br /><br />Yes, there is evil, and it is described. But I was uplifted by the books as I re-read them.Martin LaBarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14629053725732957599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9661811.post-90652742596697090382011-10-08T13:37:21.261-04:002011-10-08T13:37:21.261-04:00This is a very interesting and thought-provoking p...This is a very interesting and thought-provoking post, Martin. I had never seen a list, such as yours, on criteria for judging whether a book is Christian or not. Now I have to discover what my own criteria are. I think it's been mostly intuitive for me. From your description of Elizabeth Moon's books, I'm not sure I would want to read them. I am not so concerned, for my own part, as to whether a book I read is "Christian" or not, but more what kind of atmosphere I am going to subject myself to when I read it. I can think quite well about whether I agree with an author's philosophy or not, but dealing with a pervasive spirit, mood or feeling is much more difficult. I like to get into what I read, and I don't enjoy evil. It sounds like the parts about the main character's torture is too graphic and drawn out for me. It's one thing to tell that it happened (the Bible itself tells many a gruesome story but does not dwell on it), but making me go through that in my mind is pointless. My problem with most fantasy literature (or most fiction for that matter) is that it seems to wallow in the evil even if it is supposed to be against it. Why would I want to subject myself to that? Yes, evil is strongly present in this world, but I would prefer to spend as little time around it as possible. The devil, death and darkness is what I got saved from! If a book is to be truly Christian, in my opinion, it would shine the light of Christ more than depict evil in all its intricate detail. Surely all of us have been subjected to darkness enough in this world. We are all very well acquainted with just how egregious evil is. However, too few of us know the Light. How much more beneficial it would be, and how much truer to the heart of God and the already-paid sacrifice of Christ which overcame evil, to portray the Light itself and the Kingdom of God which is growing in the world even now, than to dwell on the darkness. As a writer, this is what I plan to do, and what I am now working on in fact. I may read Moon's books (and skim over the bad parts) for instructive purposes, but I may discover more of what I would choose to shun as a reader and a writer than what I would embrace.Karen Gladys Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09735291144446382442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9661811.post-31854813947330848442011-08-09T20:10:32.322-04:002011-08-09T20:10:32.322-04:00Thanks, Chestertonian Rambler.
My assessment of t...Thanks, Chestertonian Rambler.<br /><br />My assessment of this series of books by Moon is the same as your last two sentences, I believe.<br /><br />She has written, and is continuing to write, according to her blog, more books in this fantasy world/universe/setting, and, I think about some of the same characters, but I haven't read them yet. I'm looking forward to doing so.Martin LaBarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14629053725732957599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9661811.post-26724026869955682152011-08-09T14:22:31.586-04:002011-08-09T14:22:31.586-04:00I don't know what your category of "Chris...I don't know what your category of "Christian fiction" means; "out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks" so it seems like a book written by a Christ-follower that includes no spiritual content and no Christian distinctives ought to at least reflect Christ's priorities and something like a Christian "worldview." Unless, of course, said Christian doesn't care about Christ and his priorities, at which point question is no longer a literary one.<br /><br />(Of course, there is always the question of *how much* of Christianity is obvious in a given story, which may be the question for you of what makes a Christian novel.)<br /><br />However, I do like your depiction of Moon's inspiration, which seems Christian (in a way.) Moon, as a member of a Christian church, was in a position to argue that true believers don't act in the way so often depicted in fantasy stories. Her stories, then, seem meant to show something about the world that she could only see because of her Christian experience. So while I don't care whether her books are "Christian" or not, it is interesting to know that she is writing from a Christian faith--that her mouth speaks out of her heart-location, which loves and wants to defend those who dedicate themselves to holy service.Chestertonian Ramblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01550643992523840950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9661811.post-42550037278834931662007-06-13T21:02:00.000-04:002007-06-13T21:02:00.000-04:00Thanks, WF. The "mor" prefix was used quite a bit ...Thanks, WF. The "mor" prefix was used quite a bit by Tolkien.Martin LaBarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14629053725732957599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9661811.post-70909859702175908832007-06-12T12:42:00.000-04:002007-06-12T12:42:00.000-04:00Re: Messianic Gandalf: I loved the way Tolkien wor...Re: Messianic Gandalf: I loved the way Tolkien worked the Biblical "Moriah" references into LOTR.Weekend Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10425001168670801073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9661811.post-69788943470507949322007-06-12T08:31:00.000-04:002007-06-12T08:31:00.000-04:00Thanks for reading and commenting, WF. The standar...Thanks for reading and commenting, WF. The standards are mine, and I'm having some trouble with them myself. <BR/><BR/>As to Tolkien, I would say that Gandalf is, in some ways, a Christ-figure (I have read some who argued that other characters also are, even Gollum). There are also special calls, recognition of guidance, and there is rejection of evil. So, by my criteria, whatever they are worth, his trilogy is Christian, even though there is little worship or prayer.Martin LaBarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14629053725732957599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9661811.post-45248464345319848292007-06-11T21:15:00.000-04:002007-06-11T21:15:00.000-04:00I'll grant that by those standards Deed isn't Chri...I'll grant that by those standards <I>Deed</I> isn't Christian. But I have to wonder about those standards. By those standards, <I>LOTR</I> probably isn't Christian either. However, LOTR is deeply Christian. <BR/><BR/>I don't think <I>Deed</I> is anything like as deeply Christian as <I>LOTR</I>; it's got more in common with certain semi-Christian beliefs than with historical mainstream Christianity. Just saying, I think any criteria which would remove LOTR from the "Christian fiction" shelf have gone too far. Tolkien's fiction is much more subtle, on the level of parables. ("The kingdom of heaven is like two hobbits" ... after which the kingdom of heaven isn't mentioned again, even though it's the whole subject.) <BR/><BR/>Take care & God bless<BR/>WFWeekend Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10425001168670801073noreply@blogger.com