Musings on science, the Bible, and fantastic literature (and sometimes basketball and other stuff).
God speaks to us through the Bible and the findings of science, and we should listen to both types of revelation.
The title is from Psalm 84:11.
The Wikipedia is usually a pretty good reference. I mostly use the World English Bible (WEB), because it is public domain. I am grateful.
License

The posts in this blog are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License. You can copy and use this material, as long as you aren't making money from it. If you give me credit, thanks. If not, OK.
Saturday, November 27, 2021
Is Genesis 1-11 history, or myth? Comparing the sequence of events in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2
Monday, September 30, 2019
Should Genesis 1-2 be taken literally?
Should Genesis 1-2 be taken literally?
First question: what is literally? In this case, let's say that "literally" means that the days of Genesis 1 were consecutive 24-hour days, and that the events described as having taken place during these days took place as Genesis 1 indicates that they did, in the order given. I also stipulate that "literally" means that the events in Genesis 2 took place as described, in order as given.
The creative events in Genesis 1 (See here for link to that chapter. I have linked to the public domain World English Bible, but all commonly used English translations may be accessed easily from that page.) may be listed as follows:
Day 1: light (verses 3-5)
Day 2: sky (?) separating clouds from surface water (The King James says "firmament.")
Note added June 17, 2022: there is no firmament. Answers in Genesis, the most important young-earth creationist organization, does not believe that there was one. See here. That means that taking Genesis 1:6-7 literally does not make sense.
Day 3: dry land, land plants
Day 4: sun, moon, stars
Day 5: moving water creatures, birds
Day 6: land animals, humans
The events in Genesis 2 are as follows:
1: Adam (verse 7)
2. A garden (verse 8)
3. Animals created (verses 19-20)
4. Eve created (verses 21-22)
Genesis 2 is often taken to be a re-telling of the events in Genesis 1, or as a passage putting Genesis 1 in context. But, whatever Genesis 2 was meant to do, the sequence of events is not the same as those in Genesis 1. In Genesis 2, Adam comes before the garden, and before the animals. Thus, Genesis 1 and 2 cannot both be taken literally, if literally means what was specified in the beginning of this post.
There are other problems with taking Genesis 1 and 2 literally:
* The various days, as described, begin with the word "let," for example "let there be," in verse 14. But Genesis 1:2, which indicates that there was a formless creation, probably covered with water, comes before "let there be light," in verse 3. Was there, then, creation before day 1?
* What was the source of light in day 1? (The sun was mentioned first in day 4.)
* "Day" is used in Genesis 1, with the apparent (but perhaps not literal) meaning of 24-hour day. However, in Genesis 2:4, which summarizes the creation, it can't mean 24-hour day. Also, the Blueletter Bible gives several different meanings for yowm, the Hebrew word translated as "day," in Genesis 1, and also in Genesis 2:4.
* (added April 7, 2020) Here's a post on how Young-Earth Creationists haven't fully explored the use of yowm in the Bible.
For more on this topic, see J. Richard Middleton, "What is the Relationship Between the Creation Accounts in Genesis 1 and 2?"
Thanks for reading.
Added March 4, 2020:
I have come across two posts from Answers in Genesis. They suggest that some Bible translations do not translate a Hebrew word correctly, and that where Genesis 2 is translated as "19 Out of the ground Yahweh God formed every animal of the field ..." in the World English Bible, and other versions, it should have been translated as "Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals ..." [emphasis added] as in the New International Version, and two other translations. (The rest of the 14 translations given in the Blueletter Bible use "formed.") The translation that they prefer could resolve the seeming discrepancy between Genesis 1 and 2, as to the timing of the creating of the land animals vs. the creation of Adam, but the translation is not preferred in most versions.
But there is still a difficulty with the comparison of Genesis 1 and 2, for those who hold that both should be taken literally. In verse 9 of Genesis 2, it says "Out of the ground Yahweh God made every tree to grow ...". If that should have been "Out of the ground Yahweh God had made every tree to grow ...", none of the 14 English translations in the Blue Letter Bible do so. Thus, there seems to be a contradiction between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2, as to the sequence of land plants and humans. (Adam is mentioned in Genesis 2:7, before the mention of land plants.)
This is one post on Genesis 1 vs. Genesis 2 by Answers in Genesis. This is the other. The first one does not mention Genesis 2:9.
Wednesday, November 14, 2018
Sunspots 702
The Arts: (and computing) Scientific American considers the question of whether artificial intelligence can create true art. (Aside: The article doesn't say much about the fundamental question: "can you define true art?")
Christianity: He Lives points out some difficulties in taking all scripture literally.
Health: NPR (and other outlets) report on new guidelines on exercise, from the government.
History: (and humor) Listverse tells us about 10 common traditions, and that they are not really long-standing (most less than a century).
Humor: (sort of) NPR reports that a train, with no crew (or passengers) on board, went for a 57-mile ride, at a good speed, until it was wrecked by remote control.
Politics: Sojourners reports on a survey. Their summary: "White evangelicals are proving to be far more white than evangelical."
(and science) Gizmodo reports on a CNN meteorologist's response to President Trump's tweet about the causes of the fires in California. National Public Radio also writes about the causes. President Trump is correct that part of the problem is (and has been for a long time) management. Some previous fires should have been allowed to burn, so that less fuel was available, or underbrush should have been cleared out. But climate change is an even larger cause of the increase in frequency and strength of the fires.
Science: Gizmodo reports on genetic studies of ancient humans in the Americas, and on how such studies indicate that humans migrated through the New World.
Gizmodo also reports on tool-making in cockatoos.
NPR reports that the kilogram, worldwide, will no longer be defined by a metal object in France.
The graphic used in these posts is from NASA, hence, I believe, it is public domain.
too
Thanks for looking!
Tuesday, November 13, 2018
Science, the Bible, affirmation, and accomodation to culture
that it should not be moved forever.
13b The earth is filled with the fruit of your works.
19 He appointed the moon for seasons.
The sun knows when to set.
24 Yahweh, how many are your works!
In wisdom have you made them all.
The earth is full of your riches. (World English Bible, public domain)
This is from probably the greatest nature poem ever written, Psalm 104. Poetry is often not meant to be taken literally. That doesn’t mean that it is in error. It can speak truth, often in ways that straightforward prose cannot.
The Old Testament accommodated the culture of the day. If David had said, in verse 5, “The earth is in a stable orbit around the sun,” instead of “it shall not be moved forever,” he, nor others of his day, would have understood that. But David accommodated the culture of his day*. The Bible even accommodates the culture of OUR day. The sun really doesn’t set (verse 19). The earth rotates so that the sun appears to set. God knows that, of course, but He didn’t make David write that, and doesn’t correct us if we talk about the sun setting or rising!
*Other examples: Isaiah 11:12 and Revelation 11:1 say that the earth has four corners.
Wednesday, August 02, 2017
Sunspots 637
Things I have recently spotted that may be of interest to someone else:
Christianity: Relevant has an article that says that many of us read the Bible wrongly.
Relevant reports that World Wrestling Entertainment has registered 3:16 as a trademark, and not because WWE is a Christian organization. (It isn't.)
Ethics: (or something) Here's an article about robot sex. Can a robot be raped?
Health: For some reason, men's sperm counts are dropping drastically.
History: (or something) Listverse tells us 10 things about Guatemala.
Humor: (or something) Wired explains, with videos, how they make those plastic air pillows for packing around merchandise that gets delivered to you.
Politics: US Senator John McCain's speech, calling for a return to civility and bipartisanship in the Senate. A classic.
FiveThirtyEight has an essay on what gives a President political power, and indicates that Mr. Trump doesn't have very much of that, and why he doesn't.
Science: Scientific American on how higher temperatures are killing, and will kill people.
Scientific American on the recent story about gene editing in human embryos, which story, says SA, is wildly overblown.
Image source (public domain)
Friday, February 13, 2015
I just READ Genesis 1 - but you INTERPRET it!
Let's examine that idea.
Unless you are reading Genesis in Hebrew, you are reading a Bible which is the result of interpretation by translators. That's true of all English versions of the Bible.
Here's some of the first part of Genesis, in the King James version: (The King James is not perfect, but it is public domain, so it can be used this way; at least the first verse is familiar to most people; and some YECers prefer it).
Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. 19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. 20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Genesis 4:8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper? 10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. 11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; 12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. 13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. 15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. 17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch*: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
*Note - according to the Bible, this is not the same Enoch as the one mentioned in Genesis 5:18-24
Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.
Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
A response to the statement of the title comes from reading YEC literature. In Six Days of Creation, (Institute for Creation Research, 2013) by Henry Morris, III, a prominent YECer, there is this sentence: "The biblical record indicates that God separated the light from the darkness." Fair enough. That seems to be reading, not interpreting. But the next sentence says this: "This most likely indicates that the earth of Day One was shaped into a sphere (by the Holy Spirit 'energizing' it)." If that isn't interpreting -- going beyond what the Bible actually says -- I don't know what is!
Then there's The New Answers Book 1 (Green Forest, AR: Master Books, 2006.) Ken Ham, probably the most prominent of today's YECers, is listed as author on the title page, and as general editor on the cover. In one chapter, written by Terry Mortenson, presumably with Ham's blessing, we read "The Hebrew words translated 'the fountains of the great deep burst open' (Genesis 7:11) clearly point to tectonic rupturing of the earth's surface in many places for 150 days, resulting in volcanoes, earthquakes, and tsunamis." That's interpretation. The Bible doesn't actually say any of this that Mortenson says is "clearly" meant.
I don't know the writings of Morris, or Ham (or Ham's assistants), other than superficially. I'm not aware that any of them have ever said "I just read the first part of Genesis. But you interpret it." But some of their followers do make such claims, when, logically, they should not. Interpreting, as Morris and Mortenson have done, can be part of legitimate Biblical scholarship, but it is important to remember that it is interpretation, and to not present it as being certainly what God had in mind.
As another response to the statement of the title of this post, consider some questions about the text quoted from Genesis above:
8) What does "after their kind" mean?
9) What is the "image of God"?
11) Why do Genesis 2:4 and 2:17, in the KJV, say "day"? Didn't the creation take six days, not one? Adam didn't die during the 24-hour day when he ate from the Tree, but much later. Therefore, the word "day" doesn't seem to mean a 24-hour period in 2:17. In 2:4, "day" seems to refer to the entire period of creation. (The Hebrew word used in 2:4 and 2:17 is the same one used for each day in Genesis 1.) With these usages in 2:4 and 2:17, how can we be sure that "day" meant a 24-hour period in Genesis 1?
12) Does Genesis 2:5 mean that plants hadn't appeared completely yet, until Adam did? How can that be reconciled with Genesis 1, which puts plants on the third day?
13) What is the relationship between Genesis 1 and 2:4-25? Is 2:4-25 a re-telling of Genesis 1, or is it an expansion of the sixth day, or is it something else? Genesis 2 leaves out some important things which were given in the description of the six days of creation in Genesis 1. Why?
14) Were there marine bodies of water, as well as fresh water, before the Flood? If so, how did marine organisms survive the increase in fresh water? If not, when did marine and freshwater animals become separated?
15) Where did Cain get his wife? What other people was he afraid of? Did he marry and have offspring before the birth of Seth? If not, why does the mention of Seth's birth come after the story of Cain?
YECs interpret Genesis 1 and 2 to mean that the earth and the living things on it, and other features, were created in six 24 hour days. Perhaps they are right. But there other ways to interpret Genesis, held by Bible-believing scholars who understand Hebrew and the culture of the people of Bible times, that may also be correct. Some important Christians of the distant past held such views.
My conclusion is that anyone saying, about the first part of Genesis, or any other part of the Bible, "I just read it. but you interpret it," should reconsider. We have to interpret it into our own language, and recognize that it was written by people in a different culture. The church of the past often drew conclusions that aren't explicitly stated in scripture, but that most Christians of today consider to be valid, for example on the nature of Christ. May God help us to interpret correctly.
January 27, 2016: I'm adding a link to a relevant conversation on how to interpret Genesis 1, and a link to a relevant interview with John Walton, an influential Old Testament scholar, in Christianity Today. His views on how to interpret Genesis 1 and 2 are important, and influential. Here is one part of a series, examining Walton's views, as set forth in his The Lost World of Genesis One, in the BioLogos blog.
April 4, 2017: I added Genesis 2:17 and 18 to the scripture quoted, and noted that Genesis 2:17 uses "day" for something other than a 24-hour day.
January 13, 2019: I did some minor editing, for clarity.
February 8, 2019: This post points out that the Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 accounts give different sequences of creation events. It doesn't seem reasonable to say that both accounts are straightforward narrations of what took place.
April 1, 2019: This post, which does not deal with origins at all, from resurrecting orthodoxy, is a review of a book about how people from Bible times understood the Torah. It says "Someone who scoffs at the valuable insights scholars try to give about the Bible is someone who is not serious about understanding the Bible."
Sunday, September 14, 2014
Does the Bible really say that? Excerpt from my book, 52.
Appendix: Bible Interpretation – Some Suggestions
The above material is an excerpt from my self-published e-book, Does the Bible Really Say That?, which may be obtained free of charge, or purchased from Amazon for $0.99, which is the lowest price Amazon lets an author set. Scripture quotations are from the World English Bible, which is in the public domain.
The previous post in this series, on the matter of a physical body after death, is here.This is the last post in the series. Thanks to anyone who may have read all or part of these posts. I didn't plan that it would take a year to finish this -- it just worked out that way. God willing, next Sunday's post will be from a more important author, whose work is in the public domain.

