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Sunday, September 14, 2008

The sea as a symbol of evil in the Bible, from Snoke

In the third chapter of his book, A Biblical Case for an Old Earth (Grand Rapids: Baker, 2006), David Snoke includes evidence that the ancient Hebrews saw the sea as symbolic of evil. (See my post, sort of on this subject, which is not nearly as thorough as Snoke's book. See also the most recent previous post on this book.) Most of us do not, but see the ocean as a symbol of calm, rest, vacation, and the like.

Snoke, in his Table 2 (pp. 60-61) quotes 21 Bible references, from Exodus, Job, Psalms, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Amos, Jonah, Zechariah, Luke, Acts, Jude, and Revelation as evidence. Some of these are not obvious, but the preponderance of the evidence makes the author's case.

Here are a few of the more obvious cases, using Snoke's table, and the ESV Bible:

Exodus 15:19: For when the horses of Pharaoh with his chariots and his horsemen went into the sea, the Lord brought back the waters of the sea upon them, but the people of Israel walked on dry ground in the midst of the sea.

Isaiah 57:20 But the wicked are like the tossing sea;
for it cannot be quiet,
and its waters toss up mire and dirt.

Jeremiah 5:22 Do you not fear me? declares the Lord.
Do you not tremble before me?
I placed the sand as the boundary for the sea,
a perpetual barrier that it cannot pass;
though the waves toss, they cannot prevail;
though they roar, they cannot pass over it.

Luke 21:25 “And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves,

Jude 1:11-13 Woe to them! For they walked in the way of Cain and abandoned themselves for the sake of gain to Balaam's error and perished in Korah's rebellion. 12 These are hidden reefs* at your love feasts, as they feast with you without fear, shepherds feeding themselves; waterless clouds, swept along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.
*or blemishes
(Snoke didn't include verses 11 and 12)

Thanks for reading!

24 comments:

Patricia Burns said...

The Dead Sea -

The Bottomless Pit, Perdition, the lake of fire, and Hell are one in the same.

The bottomless pit is a reality upon this earth in the spiritual realm. The Dead Sea is the location of the bottomless pit.

The Dead Seal is outside of Jerusalem on this earth, and the Dead Sea is outside that great city, the holy Jerusalem in the “new” earth as well.

In the "new” earth, outside "that great city, the holy Jerusalem" (Re.21:10), are those who have taken part in the second death (Re.21:8, Re.22:15, Re.14:9-1, Re.20:15). In the "new” earth there is no more sea (Re.21:1), and those whose who have taken part in the second death can be looked upon (Isa.66:24, Re.14:10).



Patricia © Bible Prophecy on the Web
Author of the self-study aid, The Book of Revelation Explained © 1982
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BibleProphecy

Martin LaBar said...

The Dead Sea, eh? Maybe, maybe not.

Thanks for your comment.

B Nettles said...

I went to a series of lectures which D. A. Carson gave on The Revelation, and he holds to the idea that the "sea" represented at best confusion and at worst evil in the Hebrew culture.

Martin LaBar said...

[Sept 17, 2008] Thanks, b nettles. That seems to agree with Snoke.

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zuma said...

Should the sea be treated a symbol of evil in the Bible?
Exodus 15:19, "For when the horses of Phraoh with his chariots and his horsement went into the sea, THE LORD BROUGHT BACK THE WATERS of the sea upon them, but the people of Israel walked on dry ground in the midst of the sea."
The phrase, the Lord brought back the waters of the sea, as mentioned here refers to God should be the One that caused that sea to restore. It was the judgment of God towards the horses of Pharaoh since they went against God's people, i.e. the children of Israel.
If God did not restore the sea to originate stage, the people of Israel might be chased after the Pharaoh or be killed. As God did good to Israel to rescue them from Pharaoh, the restoration of sea to the original stage after the children of Israel had passed through, should be considered good instead of evil in the sea.

Martin LaBar said...

OK, zuma. Maybe so.

But I think Snoke has made the case that at least sometimes the sea represents evil, even if it might not in the Red Sea crossing case.

Thanks.

Bible Prophecy on the Web said...

Which Scriptures support the view that all seas represent evil?

I can see evil in the Dead Sea. The bottomless pit is in the Dead Sea.

The beasts of Revelation 13 will ascend from the Dead Sea from the Fifth Trumpet.


Twitter @BibleProphecy

Martin LaBar said...

Thanks, Bible Prophecy on the Web.

I don't have Snoke's book at hand at the moment, so can't give you the contents of a table of references to the subject in that book, but some of them will be found in this post by me:

http://sunandshield.blogspot.com/2007/11/no-more-sea-is-john-revelator-telling.html

And in the comments to others on that post.

Martin LaBar said...

P. S. I don't believe that I, or Snoke, said that "all seas represent evil."

I wrote that Snoke wrote that "the ancient Hebrews saw the sea as symbolic of evil." To me, that's not quite the same as saying that all seas represent evil, anymore than, say, all ants represent industry.

Bible Prophecy on the Web said...

Yes, I have heard that as well that the ancient Hebrews saw the sea as symbolic of evil.

Kind of humorous when one thinks about it since Hebrews were fishing on the sea all the time for their daily diet.


Twitter @BibleProphecy

Martin LaBar said...

Yes. Thanks. The Sea of Galilee could also be considered as a fairly large lake, rather than a sea, if that made any difference. (Lake Hartwell, between Georgia and South Carolina, is larger, as I understand it.) I believe that it was, or has, been called Lake Tiberias.

Bible Prophecy on the Web said...

These are good things to think on. But, until we can validate through the Scriptures that all seas are evil I. personally, would not believe that.


Twitter @BibleProphecy

Martin LaBar said...

I don't think they are evil, and I don't think it's possible to validate that they are through scripture, because they are part of God's good creation (although that creation has suffered from the Fall). The Jews may have believed them to be evil, or symbolic of evil, but that doesn't mean that they are evil.

Thanks.

Anonymous said...

(KJV)Isaiah 27:1
In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

I've recently started this study, on my own. No references but Bible. I ask bare w/ me.

Here I see the DRAGON imprisoned in the sea(same serpent in the garden per strongs)
Jude 13 and 2 Pet 2 ,his followers are imprisoned with chains and darkness ( 2pet. 2 hell "tartarus"
Rev 12 states a third
Dan 7:2-3 beast OUT of the sea,
Rev 13 beast OUT of sea.
Is 24:14 states a cry from the sea.
Unsure of the brasen sea that was in the temple? brass a symbol for judgement,though.
Jer 52:17.
My study of sea, is what goes in or out, for evil not on or over.
There's more but I'll stop. Where can i find that book by snoke.

Bible Prophecy on the Web said...

Leviathan that Great Red Dragon -

Satan is Leviathan that great red dragon (Isa.27:1 Re.12:3 below) that is in the sea.

Satan is the KING, the ANGEL, of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue [is] Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath [his] name Apollyon (Re.9:11 below).

The spiritual opening of the bottomless pit is in the Dead Sea.


Isa.27:1 In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that [is] in the sea (Re.12:3 below).

Re.12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon (Isa.27:1 above), having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.


Re.9:11 And they had a KING over them, [which is] the ANGEL of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue [is] Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath [his] name Apollyon.


Twitter @BibleProphecy

Martin LaBar said...

Thank you, Anonymous and Bible Prophecy. You seem to be interacting with each other, so I'll not comment on what you said, except to note that Snoke's book, A Biblical Case for an Old Earth, is available from Amazon, and, no doubt, elsewhere:

http://www.amazon.com/Biblical-Case-Earth-David-Snoke/dp/0801066190

The sea as a symbol of evil was not a major theme of Snoke's book, as I recall it.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Martin, (I’m from Pickens near your old college:)

Yes doing this study Satan, angels, and sea are necessary sub -topical studies. (KJV)Revelation 9:1
And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless (G12)pit(5421)
Strongs # for bottom less pit.
Both imply in the Greek ,
"Abyss" and ancient or current cultures still point where the abyss is.
(Hint not ground or a lake:) I'm not saying Satan is currently there, I am attempting to show where tartaros = bottomless pit=abyss are.
NOTE: most modern views of hell comes from "Dantes Inferno" not the Bible.



cc

Anonymous said...

This dead sea?
Where in the Bible Is it that states the pit is there

Bible Prophecy on the Web said...

In the NEW Earth there is No More Sea -


The Dead Sea is outside of Jerusalem on the earth, and will be outside of that great city, the holy Jerusalem (Re.21:10) in the new earth.

The spiritual opening of the bottomless pit (Re.9:1-2, Isa.38:18, Ps.28:1) is in the Dead Sea.

In the new earth there is no more sea (Re.21:1). In the “new” earth all those who have transgressed against God will be looked upon (Isa.66:24, Re.14:10)


Twitter @BibleProphecy

Anonymous said...

Is the sea evil then?

God is Holy, he didn't create holiness like wisdom they have exsisted just as long as the Trinity, right?
Will believers in Christ or non-believers experience Everlasting life( in the new heaven coming) ? Believers right? Paul states that believers are holy inside out.
Non-believers ? Experience everlasting life? Why ? Are they holy ?
New heaven, anything unholy or unclean, abomination will not be there.
Sea ; Rev. is clear that the sea will dry up, and won't be there why?
Example: clean and unclean.
Judges: Sampson ate honey(dietary clean) BUT the honey came from dead carcass of lion, honey now is unclean like Sampson.
Two clean things(holy so to speak)became unclean by touching a carcass.
Sea holds unholy fallen angels in hell(tartaros=abyss) in everlasting chains and darkness.

Bible Prophecy on the Web said...

The sea of Revelation 21:1 (below) is the Dead Sea in the “new” earth.

Re.21:1 AND I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.


Twitter @BibleProphecy


Martin LaBar said...

An interesting discussion, gentlemen.

I suspect that there are some answers put forth here that are not Biblically factual, but are interpretations, however.

Have you considered contacting each other in some other way, rather than commenting back and forth on this post?

Bible Prophecy on the Web said...

BPOTW receives this Blog in email and simply responds if there is something to share regardless of which member is writing. If you do not want me to respond to any particular person's comments advise, and I will not respond.

Twitter @BibleProphecy